Jean Philip De Tender – Deputy Director-General (EBU) on the return of the Netherlands to Eurovision and changes on the horizon.

This is an automated transcription of the audio interview conducted in Dutch (available on Youtube right here) Please take this in account when reading/spotting any translation errors and please attribute these quotes to “Ding-a-Dong the Dutch Eurovision Podcast - GJ Kooijman” if used in any reporting or social media posts.

GJ Kooijman - GJ

And here we are with the Deputy Director General of the EBU, Jean Philip de Tender. Jean Philip, this must be a wonderful day to be able to say that the Netherlands is returning to the Song Contest. And as we just heard, by the time this goes public, it will already be known that Belgium is returning as well. That both countries are rejoining the Song Contest with an entry.

Jean Philip De Tender - JPDT

Absolutely, I am particularly delighted that the Netherlands, which has actually been involved since 1956, when the Eurovision Song Contest was founded, is back this year. But I am also particularly delighted with the conversations we have had over the past weeks and months. The Eurovision Song Contest belongs to members. So we always have to listen very carefully to how we can improve it, how we can make it even more robust, how we can make it even stronger. And that is what happened in the conversations we had with NPO. Also with VRT. VRT never left. VRT explicitly felt that they would

GJ

...say that they are back in.

JPDT

participate. And together with NPO and VRT, we are going to ensure that what we have agreed upon can also be translated into reality.

GJ

Yes, it does feel like the EBU realizes that things haven't always gone smoothly in recent years and that things really needed to change. That's right.

JPDT

Absolutely, it is a rather complex situation. The situation is different in every country. There are a number of members who held strong opinions on one side and a number of members who held strong opinions on the other. There were also a number of members for whom the matter didn't matter at all...where participation was never under pressure anyway. And I think learning to deal with those diverse opinions, listening to everyone, and seeing how we can find a consensus in the interest of the Eurovision Song Contest has been the backbone of the discussions. And after Malmö, two years ago, we implemented quite a few changes in Basel. We did that in Vienna as well. And this year again in Burgas, a number of important changes are coming.

GJ

What are those changes we can expect? We already know that some changes were announced last month and what else is coming out?

JPDT

So we are fully looking into whether we can move entirely to online voting behaviour, because that way more people can participate in the voting. We are also looking into whether it is possible to let viewers vote for more than one artist, thereby more diversity. For example, within families there are sometimes different opinions about who should be voted for, so to be able to facilitate that. We are currently investigating it technically [to] examine what the impact is on those ways what we call motivated voting, voting behaviour that is not immediately related to the choice of a, tariffs can be limited but there are also a number of legal consequences we have to take into account the national legislation in each of the countries. Another important change I think is that the winner host is not de facto still applicable. ABU reserves the right that if a broadcaster is situated in a country where there is a geopolitical conflict or where the safety of the participants and the public cannot be guaranteed, that in that case it will not be that host country, but we may go somewhere else.

GJ

How was the response to that latest measure within EU liberalisation? How was the response to that latest new rule stating that if you win, there is a possibility of not hosting if independent safety reports say it is not safe?

JPDT

Yes.

I think safety is at the forefront of the heroic vision. You don't want the thousands of employees, the tens of thousands of people attending, to be unable to do so in a safe situation. In the past, we could eliminate that, but that is often a complex story because you have to convince the land-based broadcaster not to hold it there. That is now the other way around.

And the EBU will naturally not make those decisions alone, but must make them based on independent reports stating how safe or unsafe it is, or what the risk is of organising it in a particular country.

GJ

We see a number of changes and we also hear that the pressure, but also the conversations that have taken place recently with VRT and a number of other NPO broadcasters, among others, have indeed been worthwhile. So you can say that the boycott worked last year?

JPDT

There has always been an open and constructive attitude towards the broadcasters and what they want. I think we have been able to do that in a very constructive way now. And everyone, despite the point that was made, also looked at the future of the Song Contest. Even if they did not participate, I feel that the broadcasters feel that the event is very close to their hearts. And working well together with as many countries as possible...allowing participation has been a positive conversation between all parties.

GJ

I saw it last year. Spain and the Netherlands remained on board with the reference group, even though they did not participate. I think that is a good example.

JPDT

And by the way, it was very positive that precisely those countries that did not participate also had a voice at the table regarding which changes needed to happen.

GJ

I wonder, the Song Contest was on a massive upward trend right after the pandemic. After that, there have been some stormy years. We have a new director, but hopefully we are getting new sponsors now too. Now this. Is this the hope that the stormy page can be closed again for a while and we can build towards the growth of the Song Contest with Martin Green at the helm and new initiatives?

JPDT

I have been working at the EBU for more than ten years now and I have seen the festival grow during those years. From a traditional linear television program to an online event that is embraced by all generations and young people in particular. So that shift from purely linear to digital to an experience beyond the nine o'clock show you see has been huge. The bigger it gets, the more impact it has and the more complex it becomes to organise something like this. I think we learn from that. The value of the Song Contest hasn't changed, but it is back at the centre today. While perhaps undercut in recent years, it is a momentous event.

GJ

The next question is how difficult it is at times to notice that what might be important for the EBU is not always equally good for Eurovision. We have experienced this a number of times in recent years. It concerns member matters. One of the important things we know is that, apart from the conflict in Gaza, we know that a broadcaster there is under heavy pressure from the government. And we see this with other members as well. A position had to be taken on that, of course, because it is simply important that public broadcasters do not collapse due to government pressure. How difficult is that balance within the EBU?

JPDT

The EBU is more than the Eurovision Song Contest. The Eurovision Song Contest is, of course, the most public event we have. What people often forget is that the EBU is also a network of news services. The EBU ensures that a lot of footage about life or what is happening reaches the viewer via that network. We strive very hard for independent journalism. We advocate for journalists to gain access to the rain.

And naturally, we stand for the interests of a public broadcaster. KAN, the public broadcaster in Israel, is under immense pressure. Precisely because it is independent and because the government there would rather silence KAN. In that regard, we must ensure that KAN can remain an independent broadcaster. The comparison is often made with Russia. The situation with Russia was different because the public broadcasters that were members of the EU at the time did not actually operate independently. And were essentially the spokespersons for the governments, acting as intermediaries.

GJ

What would you say to Dutch fans who might still be struggling with the fact that the Netherlands and Flanders are returning today? What would you like to say to them in the run-up to the coming year, who still have to go through a process themselves?

JPDT

I absolutely get that, and I also understand that there are mixed feelings among many parties, not least among the fans who perhaps, to some extent, also...felt pressured to have an opinion on a certain geopolitical situation. Whereas the Song Contest is actually supposed to be a safe place where, even when there is geopolitical pressure, when there is polarisation, when people are individually under pressure based on social media, Song Contest United by Music literally wants to be that too. And that people set those differences of opinion aside for a moment and the global tone.

GJ

It is another first step back to the Heart of the Song Contest. Thank you for your time and answers!